Continuing with my free translation of gay theologian Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital.
Msgr Krzysztof Charamsa
Will you remain a priest, will you ask for secularization or will they impose a penalty?
I am and I remain a priest. I’m a better priest than I was before today. Conversely, it is I who will ask Church to open eyes.
Do you plan to write a book about his experiences in the Vatican?
Yes, I believe it my duty to further explain my experience in the Church, and do it for the good of the Church itself, which must become and apologize for their institutional scandals, for its delays, its irrational paranoia of homophobia. Anyone who sees and experiences it has a duty to awaken the Church, which has already exceeded all tolerable limit.
If the pope asked you personally, would you leave your partner and return to the Vatican?
No, I would not leave my partner because I love him and because there is no doctrinal reason to. For a priest having a partner, whether male or female, is not against the faith, it is not against the doctrine of our faith. Conversely, it is the Church and the Pope who should start thinking seriously about the inhuman discipline of mandatory celibacy and the Church’s obsession with homosexuality and human sexuality in general.
Go back to the Vatican? No, never. I would be a masochist, a person who seeks suffering and offennds against their own identity. I’m not a masochist. The Vatican is one of the least holy places I’ve ever met in my life. I want to live happy, I want to be holy, what it means to be happy and live in the light of God and the dignity of man. In the Vatican most people are not happy. It is a place that needs a spiritual and mental conversion. It needs the air of God. air that is lacking there.
Continuing with my free translation of gay theologian Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital.
Msgr Krzysztof Charamsa
Do you not think that the Vatican reacted swiftly and drastically with you, while doing the same with pedophile priests?
The reaction was automatic. Legalistic and formalistic automation is the soul of the Catholic Church to one who tells the truth, even though the pope Francisco continually speaks against legalistic formalities.
It is also true that many cases of pedophile priests were and are treated in a different way, not as drastic. Pedophilia is a shame on the Catholic clergy. It is related to the sexual immaturity of its members. It is not influenced by the world, as obsessively stated by the Church . It is the result of an obsession caused by repressed sexuality, sexuality which is rejected,not accepted, .
It is also true that at various levels of the Church pedophilia continues to be protected to save face and to avoid compensation for the damage caused. I’ll give an example. Late last summer the Polish Vatican nuncio, Archbishop Wesolowskiin died in prison, after conviction by the Congregation as a pedophile. This man had a funeral that lasted ten days, between the Vatican and Poland. 10 days’ burial for a prisoner who has already been tried by an ecclesiastical court for pedophilia abuse. The funeral began with a Mass celebrated by the Pope’s closest collaborators and ended ten days later in Poland with a reading of a letter it was said that the Dominican Republic accusations of pedophilia were merely Mafia inventions . The Vatican allowed all this show, rather than thinking immediately about how to compensate the victims of that pederast bishop. Seeing all this, one can conclude that there is a pedophile lobby in the Vatican. Yes, many pedophile priests and bishops have special treatment and many continue to be free from any penalty..
In this light the Vatican’s reaction to a gay priest who tells the truth is shamefully automatic. But this is the logic of the Church: all must remain hidden “for the good of the Church”. While hidden, nothing happens. For the Church “the devil” is the priest who tells the truth, which comes to light, the coming out of the closet.
Continuing with my free translation of gay theologian Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital.
Msgr Krzysztof Charamsa
Is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith one of the main pieces of resistance in the Curia to the Franciscan spring ?
Undoubtedly . The Congregation is experiencing its darkest period. What matters most is to keep our hidden taboo: homosexuality and sexuality in general. With spring Francisco, the congregation has a new enemy. Along with gays, there Pope Francisco. Along with homophobia a ‘Francisco-phobia “appears. The contempt for the Pope in the Congregation is huge. For the things I’ve heard about the Pope Francisco in the Congregation, it should be denounced for offending the primacy of Peter. In the past, we destroyed careers of theologians who reflected with respect and intelligence on new ways of exercising the primacy. Now the Congregation is against the Pope and his primacy in an irrational way.
Several people who work in the Congregation are simply fundamentalists and their intellectual level is not as high as the presumption of being “saviors of this criminal world.” Inside there is no possibility of discussion. Personally, I have no doubt that the Prefect of the Congregation, in a dignified and honorable way, should resign after my coming out. To save the situation, the Congregation should be closed by the Pope to begin a renewal of its methods of promoting the faith in the Church. Today the Inquisition remains . It is devoid of reason and full of paranoid emotional arguments as openly expressed by Cardinal Sarah.
At the Bishops’ Rome assembly on marriage and family, the German Archbishop of Berlin, Heiner Koch, was the “relator” for the German language small discussion group. He has always been a notable supporter of LGBT inclusion, and serves on the German bishops conference as chairman of the Commission for Marriage and the Family.
Back in Berlin, he had some important words about the synod assembly, which should offer some assurance to those worried that there was insufficient attention paid to our concerns. Pointing out that some cultural and political reasons for the resistance, especially from African and Eastern bishops, he insisted that Catholic discussions about homosexuality must continue (and implied that the German bishops will certainly take this forward).
The original report at the Austrian source Kathpress is in German. This is my own free translation, assisted by Google translate and the people of the Duolingo crowdsourcing language community.
(Note: this translation will be updated, as and when the Duolingo text is improved )
Archbishop Koch: Still a great need for discussion of homosexuality
Berlin, 10.27.2015 (KAP / KNA) The Berlin Archbishop Heiner Koch sees a great need for discussion of the issue of homosexuality still remaining in the Catholic Church. It is therefore important to remain in conversation together on this issue,
African and Eastern bishops especially have expressed very restrictive views about homosexuality at the Synod. Some put forward positions for which there had been vigorous opposition. “Our German representatives said clearly that we do not share this judgement and cannot abandon our ideas on human dignity”, stated Koch, who is also family bishop of the German Bishops Conference..
At the same time Koch pointed out that in addition to cultural differences, political constraints sometimes make dialogue more difficult: “In many totalitarian states there are far-reaching consequences if you speak out in public about, for example, treating homosexuals as human beings.
The German representatives at the Synod had clearly stated that dealings with homosexuals was a relevant subject to the Church, according to Koch, The concern was on homosexuals who live in committed partnerships. “This is a reality that has to be evaluated much positive for us,” said the archbishop. Also brought up, were pastoral issues about how parents should deal with the homosexuality of their children.
Continuing with my free translation of gay theologian Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital.
Msgr Krzysztof Charamsa
Do spirituality and sensitivity attract gays to the altar? Are there more homosexuals in the Church than in other social institutions?
I am personally sure that is so. Often in the past, for a gay man to be a priest was a way to hide his homosexuality and make it socially. Today, probably it is only a functional reason in homophobic and backward societies. I imagine that in my country, Poland, it is still working well. I think today it is much more common that a gay man with his sensitivity and openness to the transcendent and the divine, wants to be a priest.
And in the Curia, are there many gays? Is there really the Vatican gay lobby that is often spoken about?
In this area also I can speak only of my experience. We have no studies on the presence of homosexuals in the clergy, because it is a taboo, a topic that should not be discussed. In the Curia there are many gays. Many of them are good priests, if they are not homophobic, if they do not think only of their career, if they do not care only money and power. The problem occurs when gays have internalized homophobia. In the Catholic clergy there are many homosexuals who, repressed by their own orientation, hate those who are gay like themselves.
The other issue is the gay lobby, which I have not come across. I read something about it in Italy, but I have not had any experience. It may be that there is this lobby, as there are Italian or Polish lobbies in the Vatican. The Vatican, the heart of the Church, is a blend of power struggles, politics and money. I also think that the Vatican is itself an Italian and international lobby imposing ideas that have never been seriously studied.
Is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith particularly homophobic? And its top leader in the Congregation, Cardinal Müller?
Yes,the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is the heart of a paranoid and irrational homophobia. In it there is no possibility of understanding and dialogue. It works by stereotypes.I had the impression that in the Congregation, faith in God was not promoted, we do not concern ourselves with Christology or Mariology, we only battle against gays and other sexual minorities. It is an obsession. This is our real faith: anti-gay paranoia. That’s all. It’s our favorite subject. There are meetings in which, of every three cases we discuss, two are against gays. We have invented an imaginary enemy and battle against it with all our strength. We call it “our war on gender”. There can be no discussions, we think that this gender can only promote sex changes. That is the level of paranoia which prevails in the Congregation..
Cardinal Müller has promoted all this ignorance, this extremism, this obsession among the top staff, without any reasoning. Instead of promoting studies, the Congregation is a political agency to sabotage the pontificate of Pope Francis and his synodal discussion. It is the agency that fights gender, which it doesn’t even know how to define. What is of importance is to use the word gender in ways that frighten people, no matter who has not read a single book on gender studies. Obsessive homophobia and misogyny (the real feminofobia, a hatred of women) are a drama for this congregation, whose members are not all heterosexual. As everywhere, there are homosexuals. The reality is that the Congregation hates gays, eventhough it is known that there are homosexuals among its members.
In a joint press conference on the Family Synod with Cardinal Vincent Nichols, Bishop Peter Doyle of Northampton issued an apology to the LGBT community, that this important issue had not been properly addressed. (Previously, during the synod itself, Bishop Doyle had criticised the synod for the same point).
He (Bishop Doyle) also apologised that the Synod had not had time to deal with the issue of homosexuality. “I’m very sorry for the LGBT good people who were looking to the synod for something. It was really hard for people of same sex attraction. It wasn’t blocked. There was just so much to deal with.”
It’s also worth noting that his words of apology included “LGBT good people“, echoing a recurring theme from a number of bishops.
Continuing with my free translation of gay theologian Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital. In this second extract he contrasts Church preaching of “mercy”, with its record of active persecution of homosexuals.
Msgr Krzysztof Charamsa
The Church preaches mercy, but continues to persecute homosexuals?
Yes, there is real persecution by the Catholic Church of both individuals and of the LGBTI community in general. It is persecution of sexual minorities that do not belong and can not belong to the heterosexual majority. It is an ideological project of the Church. My Church allows itself to say that we must fight against gays like we fought against Nazism. It compares us with the Nazis, the enemies of humanity. This statement has come from the mouth of African Cardinal Sarah in the middle of the synod, a pace which instead should be thinking about mercy for families. The Church is obsessed with homosexuality, just as with human sexuality in general.
Unfortunately, at this time of the church there is nobody able to open a serious discussion, free from all dictatorial ideology. The intellectual and spiritual level of the Pastors is generally not very high. So,there is a lack partners whom we could face up to in the Church. This is my experience in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: a cold, blind indoctrination, an automatic legalism, full of callous self-righteousness. With whom in the Church could we debate these human questions if the Church allows the words of Sarah? He should be denounced for the defamation of a social group. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith thinks like Sarah. They are obsessed with homosexuality.
A few days ago, Cardinal Kasper said that “the homosexual is born (that way).” It was the first time I heard this from a hierarch of the Church. How about you?
Yes, it is true, I think it is the first time. Cardinal Kasper is one of the few people in the Church who think. I do not share his position on moral judgment regarding homosexual acts by homosexual persons following their own nature. I think he says, on the one hand you are born homosexual, but at the same time he excludes these same people from the possibility of love, a possibility reserved only to heterosexual creatures. It is contradictory. In other words, if it is true that “one is born homosexual,” as he says, then Catholics have a problem with the homosexual issue. They should think again about the whole issue of sexual orientation, and then review the moral doctrine in light of this reflection.
However, with this sentence it seems to me that Cardinal Kasper continues the unfortunate theory of male-female complementarity. This approach is a truly Catholic mental construction, which has already been examined and is theoretically weak, if not false. Unfortunately, the term “complementarity” has become a slogan with which the Church wants to eliminate the discussion about gay people as God’s creatures looking for love. Thus the Church also promotes a homophobic false image of homosexuals, as people.naturally incapable of love In this way it promotes hatred in the public mind against LGBTI people, who are presented as abnormal. This is an ideological position of a church that is afraid to think. I’m sure this will happen in the future and the Church will ask forgiveness for this delay. These types of errors have been repeated in the history of the Church
Returning to Cardinal Kasper. He is a believer who continually thinks, with whom you can discuss. There are also others like him: as Cardinal. Schönborn, Cardinal. Marx, Archbishop Monsignor Forte or Archbishop Monsignor Bonny, to name a few, and not forgetting Pope Francis. They are men of God and the Church, sensitive, faithful, capable of meeting humanity and talking to her. But most are obsessed, unable to think and to love, as Cardinal. Sarah. Stigmatization promoted by the majority is a weapon.
Continuing with my free translation of Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital:
Msgr Krzysztof Charamsa
Do not you think that the Vatican reacted swiftly and drastically with you, while doing the same with pedophile priests?
The reaction was automatic. The legalistic and formalistic automation is the soul of the Catholic Church to the one who tells the truth, even though the pope Francisco continually speak against the legalistic formalities.
It is also true that many cases of pedophile priests were and are treated a different way, not as drastic. Pedophilia is a shame of the Catholic clergy. It is related to the sexual immaturity of its members. It is not influenced by the world, as stated by the Church obsessively. It is the result of an obsession caused by repressed sexuality, not accepted, rejected.
It is also true that at various levels of the Church pedophilia continues to be protected to save face and not compensation for the damage caused. I’ll give an example. Late last summer in prison died the Polish Vatican nuncio, Archbishop Wesolowski, judged by the Congregation as a pedophile. This man had a funeral that lasted ten days, between the Vatican and Poland. 10 days burial of a prisoner who has already been tried by an ecclesiastical court abused by pedophiles. The funeral began with a Mass celebrated by the Pope’s closest collaborators and ended after ten days in Poland with a reading of a letter it was said that the accusations of pedophilia were the only inventions Mafia Dominican Republic. The Vatican allowed all this show, rather than thinking about how to immediately compensate the victims of that pederast bishop. Seeing all this, one can conclude that there is a pedophile lobby in the Vatican. Yes, many pedophile priests and bishops have special treatment and many continue to be free from it.
In this light the Vatican’s reaction to a gay priest who tells the truth is a shameful automation. But this is the logic of the Church: all must remain hidden “for the good of the Church”. While hidden, nothing happens. For the Church “the devil” is the priest who tells the truth, which comes to light, the coming out of the closet.
Will you remain a priest, he will ask secularization or the will to impose?
Am and me Sorry priest. I’m better priest before today. Conversely, it is I who will ask Church to open your eyes.
Do you plan to write a book about his experiences in the Vatican?
Yes, I believe it my duty to further explain my experience in the Church, and do it for the good of the Church itself, which must become and apologize for their institutional scandals, for its delays, its irrational paranoia of homophobia. Anyone who sees and experiences it has a duty to awaken the Church, which has already exceeded all tolerable limit.
If the pope asked him personally, leave your partner and return to the Vatican?
No, I would not let my partner because I love her and because no doctrinal reason to. Having a partner, whether male or female, to a priest does not go against their faith, not against the doctrine of our faith. Conversely, the Church and the Pope who should start thinking seriously about the inhuman discipline of mandatory celibacy and his obsession with homosexuality and human sexuality in general.
Go back to the Vatican? No, not again. It should be a masochist, a person who seeks suffering and offense of their own identity. I’m not a masochist. The Vatican is one less holy places I’ve ever met in my life. I want to live happy, want to be holy, what it means to be happy and live in the light of God and the dignity of man. In the Vatican most people are not happy. It is a place that needs a spiritual and mental conversion. God needs air, air that there needed.
(Monsignor Krxyzstof Charamsa was a senior theologian with the CDF and and lecturer in theology, before coming out publicly as both gay and partnered. In a wide-ranging interview with the Spanish language publication Religion Digital, he discussed the place of gay priests in the Church, the spiritual value of coming out, the Church’s persecution of homosexuals, and alleged CDF intrigues against the Franciscan papacy. The interview was published in Spanish, but contains a great deal of really important information, which deserves to be more widely available. With the help of Google translate and reliable partial translations sent to me by a native Spanish speaker, I am publishing a free English translation of the complete text in a series of posts.)
From the opening of Monsignor Charamsa’s interview in Religion Digital:
Were you happy during your years of priesthood?
Yes, I’ve always been a happy priest. I am happy serving people, listening and advising people. I am happy when I communicate the word and grace of God. But at the same time, I was not happy about the denial imposed by the Church of my natural sexual orientation. In the priesthood, these two feelings were in conflict. In the end, unhappiness prevailed, caused by the homophobia of the Church. I understood that to be happy as a priest, I must tell my church that it is paralyzed by homophobia, and this does not make anyone happy.Continue reading Celibacy, Gays, Priesthood→
An international group of LGBT Catholics, their families and their allies, sees reason for hope in the final report from the Bishops’ Synod Assembly on Marriage and Family. Acknowledging that there are some disappointments in the text, the Global Network of Rainbow Catholics nevertheless expects that the proceedings of this assembly will lead to a fresh, more sensitive approach to pastoral care.
